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HR at the Forefront of Strategy

Interview Transcript
September 2024

During the inaugural CHRO Xcelerator Fellowship Program, Brittany Hankamer, Executive Vice President and CHRO of Avantor, talked to Spencer Stuart's Steve Patscot about the importance of going outside your comfort zone, why mature companies are leader led and HR enabled and her favorite interview questions.

Steve:
Good morning. I'm pleased to be joined today by my distinguished guest, Brittany Hankamer, who leads HR for Avantor. Good morning, Brittany. How are you doing this morning?

Brittany:
Good morning, doing great. Thank you.

Steve:
Thank you for joining our conversation with Top CHROs. I'm super excited to spend some time with you today.

Brittany:
Great. Looking forward to it.

Steve:
Brittany, would you get us started here by telling us a little bit about your company?

Brittany:
Sure. I would love to. Avantor is a life sciences company that serves a variety of different customers in different industries. Anywhere from healthcare, biopharma, industry, food and beverage, really across a variety of sectors. What we say is from research to delivery. Any products that are utilized, whether it be in R&D with our pharmaceutical customers, all the way to producing life-saving drugs. In the manufacturing process we provide equipment, instrumentation, consumables, chemicals to serve all phases of that life cycle.

Steve:
That's terrific. What kind of experiences have helped you, whether they're personal or professional along the way, get to where you are today?

Brittany:
Yeah, absolutely. I think when I think back to my early career after university, I certainly had a different idea in my mind as to where I would spend my time. I really got into HR because I had a passion for training and teaching. That was the element of the profession that was most appealing to me. Life happens and I showed up for my first day of work in my first role after graduation, and my boss called me in and said, "Brittany, I'm sorry to say, but we are having corporate layoffs today and your training role that was created has now been eliminated. But hey, we've got this benefits thing that you could go do." I had always said, I love HR. I love the profession. I will never do benefits. That would, I guess be my first thing is never say never. In retrospect, when I look back on the early years of my career, I'm so grateful for the time that I got to specialize in benefits, in comp. I would not be where I am today if it weren't for that. What I learned very early on is take the roles that maybe don't seem appealing on the surface. Really push yourself outside of your comfort zone. Because those are really the ones that have at times the most impact on your career and your success.

Steve:
That's really interesting. You were one of the few people that got laid off before you even started.

Brittany:
Exactly.

Steve:
Welcome to HR, right?

Brittany:
Yeah, right?

Steve:
Well, that proves a little bit of the point of resilience and being able to roll with it. As you look back now, do you think there was anything growing up that has helped you be successful today from that maybe zero to 20 years?

Brittany:
Yeah. Immediately what comes to mind is the impact that my mom had on me growing up and watching her in the workplace. Just the work ethic. One of the things that she was extraordinarily good at is she could adapt to a variety of different situations. Growing up, watching how she navigated that and how she was able to connect with people in very, very different environments, I think is one of the things that I'm most thankful for. That I had the opportunity to watch that. Whether it was that she put herself through school. She was one of the first in her family to go to college. You mentioned resilience earlier, and I think that really stuck with me. Watching her in my early years was really impactful in terms of how I think about approaching life today, but certainly my professional life as well.

Steve:
If you think back on your experience both professionally and maybe personally, but focus primarily on your working career, were there one or two roles or experiences that you had along the way to get to where you are that had an oversized impact on either A, helping you get there or B, shaping you today in the role?

Brittany:
Absolutely. The first is, I made a decision about 10 years into my career to move out of the HR profession. I went to work for a large financial services company. I was neck deep in labor relations at that time, and they came to me and said, "Hey, have you ever thought about doing something outside of HR?" At that time, it sounded like a really refreshing change. I moved into a sales role. It was a consulting sales role serving customers that were largely HR. There were investment committees and retirement committees. But I have to say that when I think back on all the roles that I've had, I probably draw on that experience today more than even some of my technical HR background. I carried a bag, I had a book of business, I had a set of clients that I was serving. I think just the consultative nature of that role at that point in my career really taught me a number of things that I wouldn't have otherwise learned. I'm really thankful for that. I did spend about six years outside of the HR profession. That's the first one that I would call out.

The second was that I, several years later, got this wild idea to start a company completely unrelated to HR, anything that I was doing, and it took off. I made this terrifying decision to leave my HR gig and to go start a company. It was the most rewarding and scary process of my life, my career. But again, that's an example of where it really pushed me outside of my norm. There were so many aspects of running a business, being an owner, that I lived for those couple of years when I was building that business that have really served me well.

Steve:
How was your HR department for your own company?

Brittany:
Well, let's just say it was a one-woman show when it came to the administrative aspects of the business. But no, it was such a fantastic rewarding time.

Steve:
Similarly, when you think about those experiences, is there anybody along the way, any person that had just an enormous impact on you developmentally, professionally?

Brittany:
Yeah, I would go back to the gentleman that I mentioned early on who called me into his office and laid me off before I started working. He was a fantastically talented HR leader and he took a chance on me. I think that was one of the most pivotal parts my career, my professional development. The role that he offered me that day on my first day of work, fresh out of college that required 10, 15 years of experience, and he saw something in me that he believed in, and he gave me that chance and that changed my career trajectory for sure.

Steve:
What would you say your superpower is? You don't make it to the role that you have without being really good, really talented, but also having something that you're better than the rest at.

Brittany:
I think going back to what I mentioned about my mom. What I have been told is my superpower oftentimes is that when I walk into a room, I help others to feel comfortable and that they can be themselves and just an air of belonging. I think maybe I would characterize that. I do tend to always bring humor.

Steve:
Very important reason.

Brittany:
Absolutely. I think when in doubt, I'm always going to default to that. But I think that that certainly helps to drive connection and belonging as well.

Steve:
Would your CEO say that was your superpower?

Brittany:
I tend to be the one that when things get tense, Brittany's going to lean in and diffuse with something sarcastic or a joke. But I think look, as with anything, the strengths can be overused and you have to be sure that you're not always doing that and avoiding an opportunity to address conflict or an important issue. Certainly, cognizant of that. But no, I definitely am known to be the one in the room that's going to crack the joke.

Steve:
I don't know how it is within Avantor. Maybe we can talk about that. But a lot of employees and leaders really don't always value or appreciate the role of HR. Perhaps they don't understand it fully. Why do you think that is?

Brittany:
I think when you think back on the early years of the function and the days of personnel, it was so administratively focused. Certainly, those are the core elements that you need to be right, to get right to run your business. But I believe that we overemphasized those things. Whether it be payroll or benefits or just the clinical aspects of hiring and firing, those are all, and what I've always said to my teams is, "Look, that's ticket to entry." We earn the right to be in the room by doing those things really well.

So, well that it's not an area of focus. It doesn't require energy and emotion. If you're doing that, you can show up in a way and contribute to really value creating discussions that don't have to be administratively focused. The best environments that I've been in where I felt like that I could contribute in a really impactful way were those that where I was participating on a team, where maybe not the minority of the time I was weighing in on HR type topics.

But more importantly, really understanding the business, how the company makes money, and leaning in areas that frankly are not my domain expertise. But that by participating in that discussion, you're better for it coming out of with a lot of different perspectives. I think the overemphasis on [administration] certainly tends to get us bogged down sometimes, but I think when you do that extraordinarily well, it really opens the door for opportunities where you can contribute differently.

Steve:
When you think about the strategic HR impact, where are you trying to help the business grow and really impact the business performance from an HR functional standpoint?

Brittany:
I think the most, I'm biased because I'm really passionate about the talent aspects of HR. But the needle mover, in my opinion, for how we can help to transform the business is around really being immersed in the strategy. Understanding what the secret sauce is of an organization, what differentiates an organization and translating that to really powerful talent strategies. We live in a time, whether it's you say post-pandemic or with the introduction of AI.

Or a number of other variables that this process or this ability to anticipate and identify the capabilities that you need to succeed a year from now, two years from now, I think is going to be what it takes to win. For me, from an HR standpoint, that is, I think the most impactful thing that our team can do to help drive the business is around our ability to anticipate, identify and grow and build these key capabilities that differentiate the company.

Steve:
I think that forward-thinking and planning is so important. Is there a good partnership with the leadership team on that, or do they expect you to do that kind of activity? Or is that a synchronized swimming activity that you're still learning together?

Brittany:
Yeah. No, I'd say it's evolving. I would say in less mature environments that I've been in, there is a view, and I've lived that environment where it's like, well, that's an HR thing. You identify the capability, go find it for me, and then let me know when you're ready. As you start to get into more mature environments, it's actually business led. It’s leader-led and HR enabled. I think that's really where the magic happens when you start to see and feel that ownership from the business that they own and drive talent and HR walks alongside them to enable it, that's really where you make a difference.

Steve:
I love that line, leader-led and HR enabled. It really emphasizes, I think, so many different points. Okay, I'm going to go into a little bit of a lightning round with you.

Brittany:
Oh, good.

Steve:
Who do you go to for advice?

Brittany:
I'm really fortunate to have a group of fantastically talented women in my life that both personally and professionally that I can rely on. That's my unit, that's my go-to. I'm also fortunate to have a number of coworkers as well. There's a level of vulnerability and connection there that allows me to be myself with them as well and really lean in.

Steve:
If you think about this broadly, it doesn't have to be just your CEO, but top three challenges facing CEOs today.

Brittany:
I think, wow, the expectation of the employer has dramatically changed. I think CEOs are finding the right balance between whether it's the generational phenomenon that we have in the workplace right now or the macro environment. I think trying to figure out how best to pivot in terms of meeting these new expectations of what employees expect from a company. It's no longer certainly a paycheck and benefits. I think that's one of the biggest ones. I think also navigating an extraordinarily dynamic macro environment.

I'm in life sciences specifically, and certainly post-pandemic, the pandemic in general has presented things, challenges for my CEO that we've never experienced. I think there's a lot of firsts and being a pioneer in that space is particularly challenging. The third, I think around what we were talking about earlier in terms of the capabilities. There are no rules right now. There is no prescription or recipe for how this landscape is evolving with the introduction of new technologies. I think having the foresight to see around corners and anticipate on behalf of an enterprise, that's a big deal, that's a heavy load. I think regardless of the sector that you're in, I think that's a huge weight that CEOs today bear.

Steve:
Three top challenges facing heads of HR today?

Brittany:
I think they're really similar actually. I think, again, if I go back to the new expectations of the employer, huge. Certainly again, leader led, HR enabled, but we own a lot of that strategy. The capability piece we talked about earlier. I think when you get that right, that's differentiating for a company and having HR at the forefront of that is a huge challenge. Then I think this idea of anticipating as well, whether it's a skills-based approach to how you build your talent strategy or thinking about how the workforce is evolving in terms of the generations, I think there is no easy answer. Certainly, more of an art than a science and it is a challenge for us.

Steve:
If we were sitting down for an interview and I was a candidate for a role on your team, what would be the two or three things you'd really be probing me and maybe one of your favorite interview questions?

Brittany:
I think I always look for humility. You have to believe that behaviors that show up in that kind of a setting or just the tip of the iceberg in terms of what you can expect in the workplace, and certainly under pressure and stress. That level of humility I think is something that I'm always looking for in a conversation. Thoughtfulness. The willingness to answer the tough questions or any question, rather in a way that maybe pushing the envelope or is a bit different.

As far as the questions I always go to, and maybe this is indicative of what I said about humility, is I always want to know from someone what's the thing that you're most proud of that you've done in your career? Then also what's the thing that you're least proud of and why? One of the reasons why I love asking that question is just to really assess reflection, humility, ability to learn and adapt from those situations. Those are typically some of my go-tos for an interview.

Steve:
Those are great. What's the biggest thing people love about working for your company today?

Brittany:
It's the mission and the purpose. I've worked in a variety of different industries and I've been in life sciences for the last five years, but there's no better employee value proposition than the fact that what we do on a daily basis saves lives. I think that connection to the science is really impactful and the connection to how we advance science to change lives. For me at least personally, there's nothing more gratifying than that. That's a huge draw for us at Avantor.

Steve:
When you get your employee engagement surveys back and you do your town halls and listening sessions, what's their one biggest frustration?

Brittany:
Bureaucracy. Indeed. Like a lot of companies, we've grown significantly at a really fast pace. Part of our company has a private equity heritage, and that's oftentimes a much more entrepreneurial environment. Look, given our focus on science, this balance of innovation, but then also the ability to scale and grow compliantly in the right way, I think is a challenge for any organization.

Steve:
What's the best positive impact you see AI having?

Brittany:
Look, I think there's a lot of things we don't know. Certainly, I don't know about AI. I think as it started to emerge, my immediate thought was, wow, from an efficiency standpoint and in terms of reducing our cost to serve and what it means for cycle times. Really around processes and efficiency, that's what jumped out to me as having a huge, huge benefit to organizations. Not just HR, but organizations in general. As I've learned more and it's evolved, I'm starting to write. It's not just about the data.

It's not just about the impact that it has on analytics and process, but also the quality of the data and the outputs. It's hard for me to even wrap my brain around that technology that it's not a human doing that. But I think there's so many other ways from a qualitative standpoint, I think that we can leverage AI that I didn't originally appreciate as it was emerging.

Steve:
I recently saw something that said that within the next 12 months, AI will be smarter than the smartest human. That's a little concerning.

Brittany:
Yes.

Steve:
When you think about concerns for the workforce, what's your concern about AI?

Brittany:
Look, any unknown comes with fear. I feel that within the workforce when it comes to AI and the boss that I mentioned earlier that I have just a tremendous amount of respect for. He used to say, "All change is loss, and all loss must be mourned." I think about that in terms of there are so many positive aspects of what AI will bring for us, but it is a change. I think we need to acknowledge as humans, we've got to give people an opportunity to mourn that. I think it is from a change management standpoint and in terms of how we help enable our organizations to introduce us in a way that doesn't create fear is going to be one of our biggest challenges, but I think it's also one of our biggest opportunities.

Steve:
There's no question that leading in today's companies is hard. You have the multiple generations, you have a very complex social and geopolitical environment, you've got economic pressures. How are you and your team helping leaders thrive or get better or deal with all of these challenges?

Brittany:
Absolutely. I think a few things come to mind. Early management, you were a type. You were direct. There was a variety of different management types. I think to be successful as a leader today, you almost have to be all of those things. You've got to really, in terms of empathy and really understanding what motivates your team and your organization, you've got to spend a significant amount of time really building that connection and understanding what motivates someone.

That's a very different ask of leaders or managers than I think what historically has been around financial performance and compliance. Those are muscles that maybe we've not asked people to use as much in the past. I think a lot of that comes with introspection and self-discovery about who am I? First, what motivates me and how do I operate? Then having the ability to identify that in others. It's a bit of you become a therapist and a psychologist and a manager. You have to play so many different roles in order to be successful. That's where I think the agility to me is what really sets good leaders apart today from others.

Steve:
Have you experienced any changes in the type of people who want to these days?

Brittany:
I think that now you used to have the loudest person in the room. Or the most dominant person in the room generally is going to emerge as the leader. I think what I'm seeing more and more of now as we think about how to create an inclusive environment where everyone can show up as their best selves. You don't necessarily have to have the loudest voice or the most dominant personality. That we're inviting different people to emerge as leaders today when you do that well, and that's really neat. I think I've seen people step up in a way now that have different attributes than what historically we've seen people would be the dominant leader in the room.

Steve:
How do you stay positive and energized?

Brittany:
Actually in a conversation last night that I was having, you're going to have bad days. That's absolutely right. You need to take it for what it is and feel the frustration and feel the stress. But you can't allow that to become a cancer and to stick with you day after day. You need to find a way to learn from that and be resilient. I think, gosh, there's going to be days particularly in our space that are really taxing emotionally. We have to do really hard things sometimes. I think that one of the things that I think is super important and I've reinforced with the team is, the self-care element of that. It's okay to feel frustrated and stressed and burdened, but there's got to be an outlet for that. It's really important that analogy about we're putting the oxygen mask on ourselves first. I think that is so important.

Steve:
If you could give a couple pearls of wisdom to the HR community, and especially those younger earlier career leaders who are aspiring to sit in the CHRO seat, what would those be?

Brittany:
One of the very practical suggestions that I would have is take a business role. Find an area, whether you're analytical and finance is a fantastic opportunity for building skillsets and capabilities or marketing or sales or whatever it is. I think take the opportunity early in your career to do that. It can be game-changing, in my opinion. Once you progress in your HR career and really want to have an impact in terms of value creation.

Steve:
It's hard to do that without broad orientation. You were referencing our conversation last night, and that reminds me of the broad spectrum with a couple of peaks and having that experience outside of the function is tremendous. Well, this has been, time has flown. We have had a blast doing this. This is awesome. Thank you for joining us today.

Brittany:
Absolutely. Thank you.