Nicolas:
The same place.
Kristin:
... area my entire life.
Nicolas:
Midwestern.
Kristin:
I'm a Midwesterner through and through and you can't get me out of there, even though I don't love the weather. But was raised very simply in a family of four. I have an older sister and my mom and dad are still together and still around. For me, focus was always family and making sure that we were together as a family and supporting each other. I still have those values today with my own family and it is what I bring to my work and my role as well is that care for each other as individuals first and foremost is really I think what is most important. Whether you're at home or you're at work.
Exactly. Early on I had a focus on, I would call it art, in terms of writing and music. So I thought growing up that I was going to be a writer. It's what I wanted to do and I was really good at it, enjoyed it. But as I grew and worked through college, realized it's not a sustainable way necessarily to have a career and succeed and be successful. So I ended up in business, but that has a big impact on who I am and how I work as well. I do love to write, I write to think, I write to listen and learn. And I work really closely with my comms teams on communications that we do internally too. So it's skills that I've been able to translate. And I also was always into music, so when I was a kid I played the saxophone.
Nicolas:
Oh, nice.
Kristin:
Yes. So I was very, very musical. I like to say I was quite good at it and played all the way through college. And even later in life I occasionally have picked it up as my daughter tried for a few years to play the saxophone as well and I brought it out of the closet and dusted it off and played there too. So just arts and creativity or something that are always just sort of at the core of who I am.
Nicolas:
That's interesting. So I always loved, I'm really bad at playing an instrument. I try, actually my wife and my kids are really good at it, but I'm really bad. So that's a skill that I always admire on people because I always wish I did that. So do you still do any writings or do you still play any of the saxophone on a band?
Kristin:
No playing the saxophone in a band, you won't see me on a stage anywhere. Like I said, I picked it up occasionally when my daughter was into it. It was something we did together, which was fun. But that is not something I have carried through. The writing, I do still write, I journal. I used to journal every single day because it was sort of an outlet just to get thoughts out of your mind. I don't do that every day anymore, but once a month I'll sit down and just reflect and get thoughts down on paper. And sometimes it makes sense and sometimes it doesn't, but it just helps to quiet the mind a little bit.
Nicolas:
A little bit, yes.
Kristin:
So I do still journal from that standpoint.
Nicolas:
That's a good, one of the questions that I wanted to ask you later was how do you manage stress? Because the job is very stressful and so I guess writing and journaling is a way to do that.
Kristin:
Yeah, writing and journaling is one way for me. More daily, I'm actually, I don't look like a runner, but I'm a runner, so I do manage stress with a morning run pretty much –
Nicolas:
Every day.
Kristin:
... every day. And if I'm not running, I'll get out and walk. And no music, no headphones, just outside listening to nature, in my head. And it just allows me to work through either if something's really bothering me or I'm worked up about something or if I have a big challenge that I'm trying to think through, that's the best time for me because my mind just kind of wanders and it goes in every different direction and I can –
Nicolas:
And that's where you're probably thinking and being creative.
Nicolas:
So tell us about how did you get here and then what were the one or two potential challenges that you found on the way?
Kristin:
Absolutely. I'd say mine was pretty linear in terms of once I started my HR career and then working through, and quite intentional. But my path into HR was not, that was...
Nicolas:
Within HR?
Kristin:
To get into HR in the first place. So I have a degree in English, as we talked about the writing piece, I was going to go into publishing, decided that really wasn't for me, I think the day I graduated from college. So then I was like, "Okay, now what do I do?" And I started, like many folks, looking around thinking, "Okay, well what is my first job? What am I going to do?" And I had done some recruiting through a summer job to hire in. I worked at an amusement park actually all through high school and college and I did –
Nicolas:
Oh, nice. Must've been fun.
Kristin:
It was fun, it was fun. But I would do hiring in the off season and so I was like, "Well, okay, I know how to hire, I'll just start doing that."
Nicolas:
Let me start doing that.
Kristin:
And started recruiting, but never had thought I'd be in HR. Very shortly realized recruiting wasn't for me, but I did like the people aspect. And thought, "Okay, well this is something I can do and let me get out of the recruiting side." I was in a staffing agency, and go into an HR generalist role and then the HR piece took off from there. So I kind of found myself in the function itself within my first real job within HR, I walked into a company and they warned me when I walked in, they said, "Well, we just need to be really clear with you. We are divesting from this company that you're actually interviewing with. So this small piece, about 500 people is going to spin out in a couple of months. We don't know what the other side of it looks like, but we have this job and so you can come in and it'll be a great opportunity." I didn't understand any of it. I didn't know what it meant. I didn't realize when they said that's risky.
Nicolas:
How people were going to be affected by the divestiture ideas.
Kristin:
Exactly. I was 23 years old, maybe, living at home with my parents. So I had no idea. No. It was like, "Well, it gets me out of recruiting. I'm good. I will sign up for it." It was the best decision I ever made because when you're spinning out and starting something up, I was in a three-person HR department, I didn't know what I didn't know. I got to do everything. So I got to help set up an HRAS system. I got to work closely with payroll as we set that up. New benefit programs. We needed a compensation structure. You name it, it just kept getting thrown at me of go talk to this person and let's figure out how to do it. And so in probably a five to seven year time span, I learned a bit of every part of the HR function. And not just learned it because I got to sit in on meetings and watch.
Nicolas:
You got to do it.
Kristin:
I got to do it and roll up my sleeves and try. And I think that was the number one thing that, the experience I had is get a little bit of knowledge across the function. But the other piece is have a leader and as a leader be a leader who allows folks to try things, take risks, and learn from them.
Nicolas:
Right. Because you did that and you experienced that.
Kristin:
Exactly. And to me, that set the foundation for the rest of my career. And in that space, I had a great leader and mentor by the time I left there who had me really intentionally think about what's the next move you're going to make? What do you want to do? Not the next job, but what do you want ultimately your job to be?
Nicolas:
Did you think at that point maybe I can be...
Kristin:
Yeah, I don't think I even knew CHRO at that point in time.
Nicolas:
It was probably called something different.
Kristin:
It was probably Vice President of People, right?
Nicolas:
People or something, yes.
Kristin:
But we had grown from a 500 person company to a 1,500 person company during that period of time, went from a three person HR team to maybe there were seven or eight of us and I was probably 30 or somewhere around there. And my boss said to me, what do you want that final role to be? And I looked at her and said, "I'd like your job." Head of the function, I think is what I called it at that point in time. And she said, "Okay. And then you need to think about what are the gaps that you have? Let's look across the HR function, think about the gaps and start to intentionally, over your next couple of job moves, fill those gaps. Because that's the way you're going to get there." Really great advice. And I give that advice to this day. I call it the tools on the tool belt. If you want to lead the function, you've got to know the different pieces that you're leading. Don't go too far down in any one specialty.
Nicolas:
Into one area, right.
Kristin:
So that you get kind of pigeonholed. But if you're going to lead across, you've got to know the detail. And that was something I actually learned at that job in the amusement park that I had way back when in high school and college. I had a great supervisor who said, "You can't lead if you don't know the work."
Nicolas:
Exactly.
Kristin:
So learn what they're doing. And at that point it was like learn the fry cook and how to flip the burger, but how do you supervise someone if you haven't actually stood in their shoes?
Nicolas:
Right. You don't have credibility.
Kristin:
Exactly.
Nicolas:
But we were talking about this yesterday, the importance of actually being in the details and be able to, yesterday for the listeners, we were talking to a former CHRO of Apple who worked with Steve Jobs and was talking about the importance of, for them, really getting into the details and being very focused, having the freedom to be focused and I think is what they said. So having, knowing the details and getting into the details to be able to then influence more broadly. So that was a good, most of us have great mentors or good experiences that kind of shape us how we think and who you are. You just mentioned one, maybe any other ones or any other experience that you think might have been formative for you being successful now?
Kristin:
Yeah. So I have a few mentors along the way, and they are usually, a couple of them are bosses that I had at some point in time. That first one I mentioned was truly pivotal to me in terms of really setting the path and intentionally helping me work along the way. I have had a couple of other leaders along the way who have helped me in terms of shining the spotlight on the things that I maybe am blind to, particularly as they know I have ambitions or I'm working with high levels within an organization. Really having those leaders that will sit you down and say, "Okay, when you showed up in the meeting this way and said what was on your mind..." Because I tend to say what's on my mind a lot.
Nicolas:
You write them down, but then you also...
Kristin:
Oh, I speak out loud. Yeah, unfortunately. Unfortunately, I guess, you always know where you stand with me. But having a leader who will call you on that and really help hone as you mature in your career and as that audience that you're with becomes more influential. Once you're at that C-suite or you're with the board of directors, you do have to watch a little bit what you say. And so when this happened, this is the reaction. This is what you didn't read in the room. And really just making sure that they're intentionally helping me through that. Now we all do that as leaders of people with feedback, but it's a leader that knows where you're going and what specific levers you need to pull.
Nicolas:
Who really knows you and cares about...
Kristin:
Exactly.
Nicolas:
Feedback is such a gift, we say that all the time, but most companies don't, or most people actually are not very good at it. And you benefited tremendously from receiving feedback and finding a mentor. What's the one tip on giving feedback or receiving feedback? Both ways.
Kristin:
So in the giving of feedback, for me, I am always really upfront with my team or with my peers who obviously I have coaching relationship with too, right from the start of building a relationship is that you are going to get feedback from me. Because I do, I joke around, development is a gift, feedback is a gift, but I do truly believe that. We don't get better if we don't see what others see. And I am very clear that when I give that feedback, I can be really direct and I can say things like it is, and sometimes that doesn't feel great. And so I think setting that up right up front helps the burn a little bit.
Nicolas:
You expect that I'm willing to be given feedback, right?
Kristin:
Yeah. There's no surprises then. And there's no surprises about my style. My hope is when I do that and I overplay, I think sometimes, that I say it like it is and I'm very blunt and direct, so that maybe when it happens, it's not as harsh as I play it out to be, but I'm really intentional about setting the stage. And people ask me, "What's your leadership style?" It's usually the first thing I lead with. I'm direct. I say it like it is. I don't mince words. Sometimes I don't have the right words, but I will just kind of hit you between the eyes.
Nicolas:
Clarity is important, right?
Kristin:
It is.
Nicolas:
In leadership.
Kristin:
Yeah, agreed.
Nicolas:
And so as we're talking about feedback, and I'd love to know, so if I were to go and ask the people who work with you and your CEO for what your superpowers are, what would they say?
Kristin:
Yeah, so I would say the first is capacity, getting things done. Yeah. I am one who I expect a lot from my team, but I expect a lot from myself too. And we are all in it together, but there are things that need to get done and when we know what they are and we are headed toward them, we are going to execute on it. And there's never really a question about that. I often have to keep the other part on my shoulder there too of we've got to be careful not burn out the team in driving toward that.
But it's something I really pride myself on and always have prided myself on. My team would probably say two, the ability to influence across the organization. And that to me, sometimes it comes out as influence. It's more the relationship building. I do think that I have a good ability there –
Nicolas:
To do that, yes,
Kristin:
... to very quickly build trust, but real trust. It's genuine. When I'm working on a team, we are on that team together and we are all together better in the long run. And I see a pivotal role in being able to pull teams together in that way. So I like to think I have a strength there.
Nicolas:
And that is such a, especially when you are in the C-suite, right? I mean it is important to, I mean, you're influencing constantly. It's one of the big skills and capabilities that leaders need, not just the analytical part around solving problems, but also then how do you influence the rest of the organization to move in a certain directions? How do you, given that that is a superpower for you, what advice would you have to people who may be thinking about doing that better or people who may need to work on that?
Kristin:
So to me, it's almost too simple and it is that you have to spend the time to build the relationship –
Nicolas:
Before you actually need to, yeah.
Kristin:
... before you need to actually influence. And you have to A, commit that time, and B, keep up with it and be consistent. So what that looks like for me is I start in an organization or I start on a new team, there is, I call it the learning journey, the listening journey. It's a series of one-on-ones. And you start with the people that you're going to be working with the most closely. And it's not a one-on-one that says, "What are your objectives? What are you working on? Every one of them starts with how are you doing? Tell me about yourself."
Nicolas:
It's building trust, right? Yeah.
Kristin:
Exactly. It's, "Who are you as a person?" One of my favorite questions, "What makes you tick?" And then I go through the what makes me tick. And it's in those connections that you start to build that relationship. So it's not the first one-on-one, and all of a sudden you're good and you're ready to go. It's not the second one. It's every few weeks we're meeting, we spend maybe an hour together. And always, because I'm a chatter by nature, the first 15 minutes is just chatting, "What's going on? How was the soccer game? Exactly. What's keeping you up at night right now?" And then we transition into work things. But if you don't have that base foundation, that personal connection, you're going to have a really hard time influencing across the organization.
Nicolas:
You're not in front of a human. I mean you're in front of a human. And if you don't go into that personal, you see a worker, not a human, not a person.
Kristin:
Exactly.
Nicolas:
So I wanted to kind of shift, thank you for that. I wanted to shift into more broader trends. And this is actually a thought, which is the importance of building connection and trust. The way you do it is obviously, and I think it is the way we all do it, is on this one-on-one, getting to know people, in this hybrid world, that's a big trend now that is not going away with people working remotely and zoom and this and that. How do you do that? How do you build those personal connections and shape a culture of an organization when you work in a hybrid world and a lot of management teams are distributed, right?
Kristin:
Exactly.
Nicolas:
It's expensive to get them together. It takes time. And what's your advice on that and how do you guys do it?
Kristin:
It's a challenge we're all facing, and if you ask the trend right now, I think it's the number one thing on most CEOs and CHROs minds is how do you make it work? Should we make it work? Should we not? Should we force going back to the old way? I feel that we should not, but I have a bit of a bias and it comes from personal experience that you can still build the relationships and make things work when you're in this hybrid world. And the reason for that is I lived in a hybrid world before COVID, so I had a job, I was working for Pfizer, and I was very fortunate to have a wonderful job with them working with C-suite level executives in the Pfizer organization, but being allowed to remain living with my family in Chicago, but being based in New York.
Nicolas:
So you were commuting, yeah.
Kristin:
So I commuted about 50% of the time between Chicago and New York. And when I wasn't in New York, I was on, it wasn't Teams at the time. I forget what we used, but I was doing that before people did it generally. So when we went remote through COVID, to me it was a little step backward. Well, when I was talking to somebody about this yesterday, it was amazing to me when we had that period of time, those first few weeks when people were like, "I didn't get dressed today, or I'm wearing my PJs or I don't have any makeup on." I'm like, "But you're at work. I don't understand." Because I had done it.
And so now that we've been a few years in this, I do think it is manageable, but you do have to take the time and be very intentional about when do you have in-person connections and are you really leveraging that? And when you have the online, so to me, the building relationships looks the same way. It's just instead of you and I sitting across from each other in a room, we're sitting across each other on a Zoom call or a Teams call.
Nicolas:
But to your point, you have to be intentional because the casual water cooler conversation doesn't happen anymore. Right?
Kristin:
That's exactly right. But you still need to have that connection. I would still do one-on-ones, and do. Most of my team is actually not located with me. We do one-on-ones every other week.
Nicolas:
So you schedule one-on-ones with everyone.
Kristin:
They're scheduled regardless of whether they're in-person or online.
Nicolas:
Exactly.
Kristin:
And I have always been a big believer and a pusher on when you are on a Teams call or a Zoom call, you have your camera on. And it doesn't matter if it's a Friday and you don't have makeup on and your hair's up in a ponytail or you got a baseball hat on or the dog's in the back or the kids are in the back, you're on camera. Because eye-to-eye, whether we're in-person or we're on a screen, to me, is that connection piece. And I've had folks who don't, and I will be very clear, you're going to have the camera on.
Nicolas:
Well, you mentioned you were direct, right? And so you would tell them, "Hey, turn your camera on."
Kristin:
Exactly. It's too important.
Nicolas:
Even if you don't have any makeup or you don't have a good hair day.
Kristin:
And I'm a big one, and I always have been, I am open about who I am as a person and that I'm a mom. I'm a mom of teenagers. I have a dog. I have a husband who's luckily retired and at home. And when I am on my Team's calls at home, you see all that. Yes, I'm in my office.
Nicolas:
That is part of being human right now. I think that is one of the good things that came from all of this is that we've invited people-
Kristin:
Into our homes.
Nicolas:
... into our homes and that personal connection is like, I have a dog and what is the dog's name? And so forth.
Kristin:
Exactly.
Nicolas:
I love that.
Kristin:
Exactly. And if we're not human, then people don't have the license –
Nicolas:
Especially in what you do, right? Of course.
Kristin:
... to be human. Exactly.
Nicolas:
So a question around the HR profession. We hear, and sometimes you read a lot, there's a lot of detractors that don't necessarily value the role of human resources. What would you say to those people?
Kristin:
Yeah, that's a tough one for me. Because at the end of the day, I say this to my team all the time, we're all people. We all have families or home situation. We are working, yes, some of us for the love of what we do, but we're also working for a paycheck and for our livelihood, to have medical insurance for our families. And those are the things, we know we can add big value from a strategic standpoint and help the business and all the things that we all want to do because those are the fun and amazing things. But we also play a really important role for everyone in their role as an employee because they can pay their bills because we got their paycheck, right?
Nicolas:
Exactly, yes.
Kristin:
Their child can go to the emergency room when they're not feeling well because they have their medical insurance and we did that with ease and made sure that they had the coverage that made sense for them and their family. And so it's not the sexy, exciting stuff, but right then and there –
Nicolas:
But when those things don't work...
Kristin:
When those things don't work or you don't have them, you don't have the talent that you need to execute on your business strategy. And so I've been big on this with my team right now, we have some foundational things that we're working on. We got to get this stuff right. And so if someone questions the value of the function, again, while it's not what we really want the function to be and how the function evolved –
Nicolas:
To be known for, right.
Kristin:
We have to do those things and get the basics for everybody, including ourselves as employees, to get the license to be able to help unlock the talent within the organization. So then you take the where does the, if we get the basics and we have a good employee experience or we're bringing talent into the organization, we're retaining the right talent within the organization, we're helping make moves on maybe those that aren't the right talent within the organization so that we can really have the best, most effective productive teams in place. Then you can get to, okay, now what are our talent strategies for how we grow the business? Are we transforming the business? Are our leaders showing up in the way that we need them to show up in order to execute on the strategies that our leadership team or our board want us to execute on? That's the fun and exciting place where you can say, okay –
Nicolas:
But you need to have the foundation...
Kristin:
Right.
Nicolas:
How do you think, and that point around the world's changed significantly in the last few years, and we think that is the next 15, 20 years, it's going to be very different from the last 15, 20 years. When you think about leadership and mapping your leadership to the strategy of your business, how has the role of a leader changed or should be changing to help drive your strategy, create value, and shape the organization differently?
Kristin:
So I think for me, the role of the leader there and has it changed, it probably has, to your point, in the last couple of years, is to help unleash the power of your team.
When we talk about business transformation, a lot of companies are going through digital transformations right now. How do we change how we go to market as a company? How do we change how we're interacting with our customers and meeting them where they want to be, where they're used to being? We were talking about Steve Jobs and Apple and there's a company that looked at, we don't actually want to know what the customer wants, because they don't know what they want yet. We've got to meet them where they're going to be and they don't even know they're going there. We all want to do that. We all want to shift how we –
Nicolas:
Be ahead of your clients.
Kristin:
Be ahead of your competitors, be ahead of where your customer's heads are, because that's how you're going to win and how you're going to grow and transform. And as a leader, we need to provide the environment where our teams can feel safe to take the risks that they need to take, to try things that we haven't tried before, learn fast, fail fast, and move on, be agile. Those are all things that we're all talking about. But from a leadership perspective, to me that's more open-minded and less micromanaging than we probably would've been in the past. I think in the past you've got functional leaders, really know their space, they know what their teams need to deliver, they have the formula for that deliverable and they can march forward and move forward. Now you have to have leaders who have to understand that you may not be hiring people who've had the same experiences as you because that's not going to get you where you need to be.
Nicolas:
Right.
Kristin:
So how do you lead people who are of a different generation, who have a completely different skill set, who maybe you don't really understand where they're going? How do you give them the space and the reins to be innovative, be agile, try new things, but know when do you have to push a little harder or when do you have to stop something? When do you have to say no, we're not going to do that and move forward. And it's a balance to me of true people leadership where you're able to just really tap into everybody's strengths and their strengths across a team, but also being decisive and knowing when do you stop something and when do you make the decision.
Nicolas:
Yes, and then you actually make a decision. That is a very good point. I mean, we see leaders who, in the old days, you were very, you made decision, that was your role. You got into the details. And I think I love what you said, you need to create the conditions and the environment for people to thrive and be creative and push and share ideas and fail fast. But then at some point you have to make decisions and move on. I mean, just living in a consensus world where decisions are not made just takes forever. And eventually most of us are in, businesses need to perform to be successful. So great. So we'll do a quick lightning round of a bunch of quick questions and just one answer. And I may actually come back and ask you a few things, but so the first one is, what is your favorite podcast?
Kristin:
I hate to say as I'm doing a podcast that I don't listen to podcasts.
Nicolas:
You don't know what, you don't listen to podcasts. All right, well hopefully you listen to this one.
Kristin:
Now I will. This will be my favorite. There you go.
Nicolas:
You have to forward this to a bunch of other people. So maybe this is going to be your favorite, right? That's what you said.
Kristin:
This will be.
Nicolas:
Perfect.
Kristin:
Absolutely. Not my own, but someone else's.
Nicolas:
Someone else. So who do you go to for advice?
Kristin:
First and foremost, my husband. He knows me the best. And you talk about the filter of someone who will just help me think through and tell me how it is. He's my filter.
Nicolas:
And does he listen? Because sometimes as a husband, I get feedback from my wife, "You're not listening."
Kristin Papesh:
He listens pretty well. I'm the one who gets the feedback that I don't listen.
Nicolas:
That's great. So, top three challenges facing CEOs today?
Kristin:
Well, we talked about the remote hybrid. I think that is a huge one. Artificial intelligence and how we're going to leverage it and how we're going to rein it in is another big one. And I will say, especially selfishly sitting in the CHRO space, this balance of sustainability, diversity, equity, and inclusion, how we have the right focus on that, not lose focus on it, but not get into politics around that.
Nicolas:
That's a very good one.
Kristin:
To me, those are the top three.
Nicolas:
So maybe, so top three challenges facing CHROs today?
Kristin:
Yeah, they're probably the same.
Nicolas:
The same.
Kristin:
They're the same. The only one I would add in there to me is attracting and retaining that next generation of talent. And what do we have to do to really tap into what our younger generation is looking for from a satisfaction standpoint? That to me is a big one.
Nicolas:
And they're going to be leading the business obviously in the future. So we have to. So talking about that, top three things, two or three things you look for when hiring someone.
Kristin:
So adaptability for me is huge. Being able to work in an ambiguous environment and be comfortable in that and thrive in that. A hunger to learn, particularly around business acumen. You don't have to know the industry, you don't have to necessarily know the company, but do you have the tools and the skills to be able to quickly learn? And then I go back to my superpower, the ability to build relationships and make connections across the organization.
Nicolas:
I do have a couple of questions around AI, but it's interesting, the things you mentioned, the problem-solving AI will probably help us a lot. So you mentioned very human things, learning, building connection. So what's the biggest difference between good and great HR leaders?
Kristin:
I think good HR leaders know the function. They know what needs to be done and they'll make the decisions around that. A great HR leader has the human at the center of everything, puts themselves in the shoes of every employee at every level within their organization and makes the tough decisions with that lens.
Nicolas:
With that lens. Yeah.
Kristin:
Yeah. That to me is really the differentiator.
Nicolas:
So what are the bigger things that people love about working for Fortune Brands?
Kristin:
Well, they love our brands. First and foremost.
Nicolas:
I'm a client, so I do.
Kristin:
There you go, you've heard it. Brands is in our name. And a lot of people, myself included, when I first had the conversation around Fortune Brands, not heard of it. All it takes is a quick Google and a quick visit to our website. You go, "Oh, okay."
Nicolas:
Oh yeah, I know those brands.
Kristin:
I know those brands.
Nicolas:
I see them all the time.
Kristin:
For us in water, it's Moen is our biggest brand, right? But we've got a suite of water and water innovations and water sustainability products that are phenomenal. And our team and our company just lead the brand in security. It's Masterlock, it's Yale August, digital connected locks, and then in outdoors it's Thermatrue and it's Larsen Doors and Fiberon decking, but across our suite, so there's the brands that the employees love. There's the future of where we're going, which is in the connected home. So how do you make things like your water usage or entry into your home connected and easy for every consumer? We all have phones, we all have apps. We know how to use them. How do we unlock that for the home? And then the connection with sustainability for us is huge. Yeah.
Nicolas:
That is really exciting. Scary sometime, but, so maybe that's the next question. Biggest impact or positive impact you see for AI?
Kristin:
So for me, and I will admit, I'm an old school, so I'm just starting to dabble in AI. But the things I see, it amazes me. I'm not afraid and I try to talk to folks, "Don't be afraid. I don't believe it's going to replace people ever." But boy, will it unlock our productivity so that people can do more. We always talk about, I take it to the HR function. We always talk about, "Well, I want to do more strategic work and I really want to spend more time thinking about programs that are going to bring value to the business and value to our leaders." Well, if you can leverage AI for things like, we used the joke yesterday, writing a job description. What that's perfect example for me having sat in comp for a period of time.
Nicolas:
For many hours trying to write one, yeah.
Kristin:
Being a business partner. Exactly. Sometimes I would set aside a half a day to write one job description, and you're pulling things from online and you're wordsmithing and then you're reading it over and you end up with something that frankly half the people look at and can't understand anyway. You can do that in under a minute now. And that doesn't mean I don't do it anymore. It means I can do that and then I can do something else with those four hours I would've taken to write that job description. So to me, that's the exciting part, is that we don't have to spend time on the mundane anymore. I've seen leadership training presentations put together when you feed in information of these are the topics I want to cover, give me an agenda for a training class. You get the agenda. Now you can take that and really put time into-
Nicolas:
Focus on the content, right.
Kristin:
... the content, exactly. And the experience.
Nicolas:
So what do you think are the biggest concerns about AI?
Kristin:
Yeah, so I do think there's the wrong concern of it will replace people. I don't believe that, but I think that's a big concern That's in the mind. I've heard it. I've heard it just in building chatbots within our organization. I've had folks on our HR team say, but now you won't need me to talk to that person anymore. Not true. There is this piece of, and again, I think it's because I'm old school and I don't understand it enough. How far do we take it in terms of how much intelligence can it get? And are we going to over rely on that? That to me is the biggest concern, is having the balance of, we can't forget. It's a tool, and it's a tool to help us unlock the things that we need to do as a society, as employees, as people running companies and running the country. But if we give it too much power, that scares me a little bit.
Nicolas:
Exactly. Well, so it still doesn't replace our need for critical thinking. So we need to read or evaluate and get insight from what we get from the AI and not lose that critical thinking part. So almost closing, landing the plane. So fill in the blank. HR in the next 12 months needs to be more dash, and then less dash.
Kristin:
More human. That's a big one for me. Less, I don't know the right word, authoritative, maybe. I would say the, no, I do not enjoy that word policing and yeah.
Nicolas:
More empowering to...
Kristin:
Exactly.
Nicolas:
So last question, what pearls of wisdoms would you share with other HR leaders who aspire to become CHROs in an organization?
Kristin:
Yeah, that's a great one. Probably the same pearl of wisdom I got going way back to that first HR job that I had, which is learn your function, learn your craft, whether you like compensation or not, whether you like benefits or not, whether you like employee relations. Spend some time in each, not enough to get locked in, but enough to understand it. Understand how the work gets done, understand the importance of the work, what types of decisions need to be made in that area, and then move to the next, build your craft if you want to lead across the function.
Nicolas:
Yeah, broad leader. And then the very last question is, what advice would you give your younger self about what you know now?
Kristin:
Don't worry so much about what's happening today. You're on the right path and spending time and losing sleep over things that, they will resolve themselves. There's never a problem so big, hopefully, that it won't resolve itself given enough time.
Nicolas:
It's interesting. I would give myself the same advice, my younger self the same advice. I think a lot of us, at some point you learn that it's like tomorrow it's going to be there.
Kristin:
It's a new day.
Nicolas:
Go get some sleep. So thank you very much for this. I really enjoyed getting to know you better and also learning more around Fortune Brands and the impact you're having and kind of where the company's going. So thank you for that. And I think we're done now.
Kristin:
Excellent. Thank you.